e10 Fuel Problems (It's not clean or green - or a good deal for you.) | Auto Expert John Cadogan

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Time for the ethanol chat. I’m pretty sure there’s gunna be a fatwah. (Said the actress to the bishop...)

My comments in this report relate to Australian ethanol - which is mainly produced from wheat. In the US they use corn, and in South America they use sugar cane. And the energy economics vary as a result.

At the risk of being totally parochial, we don’t have a famine problem in Australia. We have some poverty, but there’s enough arable land.

Here in ‘Straya, farmers are going to grow what they can grow on their land, and they’re going to sell it to the highest bidder. If part of that market is for ethanol production - fine by me.

At an ethanol factory, the wheat gets separated into its two constituents - starch and gluten. They ferment the starch to produce the ethanol, and they sell the gluten into the food industry.

The first big problem is: ethanol’s not green. All that marketing bullshit - clean, green leaves coming out of the petrol bowser? It’s A-grade bullshit. We produce ethanol here, using coal and diesel. It’s environmentally disgraceful.

Here in Shitsville, there’s effectively an ethanol monopoly - it’s all made by Manildra. The company operates one large ethanol plant in Bomaderry on the South Coast. Coal and wheat roll in at one end, and ethanol pours out the other.

Manildra is privately owned by a rich dude named Dick Honan through his personal company Honan Holdings. He’s a prolific political donor - kicking the tin to the tune of $179,000 in the 2014-15 financial year.

According to the ABC’s Four Corners, Manildra made $4.3 million in donations over the past two decades - straight in the favour bank. Personal opinion.

On fundamentals, Manildra seems like a pretty shitty business. I don’t know why they bother. Total income on sales for 2013-14 was a staggering $1.2 billion for Honan Holdings, according to Fairfax, but the taxable income was just $35 million - that’s a margin of less than three per cent. That’s terribly thin.

This means the income tax payable was just $6.6 million. On $1.2 billion in sales. To put this in perspective, if your taxable income here in Shitsville is $100,000 per year for the total sale of your labour to your employer, and you paid tax on that at the same rate as Manildra, the impost of income tax to you would be $500. Annually.

Mr Honan appears to be rather the regular at meetings with the big end of town. According to Fairfax Media he met with then NSW Premier Mike Baird and other cabinet ministers on 20 occasions in the lead-up to the government compelling small filling station operators to sell e10 for the first time.

Here’s what the NSW Treasury said about that in 2012:

“Beyond Manildra it is difficult to identify a net benefit for any other segment of society.”

The ACCC said in 2013 that e10 had (quote) “reduced consumer choice” and resulted in (quote) “significantly higher prices”.

Even the Greens weren’t convinced. The late Greens MP John Kaye said:

“There's no evidence that requiring motorists to use ethanol-blended fuels has any net greenhouse gas gain or much in the way of air quality improvement.”

It kinda sucks when you can’t sell an allegedly sustainable fuel to the Greens.

Yet, none of this convinced the Premier.

In February this year the NSW Planning Assessment Commission approved the reopening of one of the state’s shittiest coal mines so that the dodgy output can be trucked to - you guessed it - Manildra’s ethanol plant in Bomaderry.

The Planning Assessment Commission said in 2014 that operating the mine would be:

“Incompatible with the significant conservation of the site”

The allegedly independent agency rejected that previous non-Manildra mining proposal saying open cut mining there posed:

“Unacceptable risks and impacts, and only limited short-term benefits.”

I wonder what changed. Because soon, it seems, 20 filthy, stinking coal trucks every single day will stuff themselves full of low quality shit coal, and head across the the Blue Mountains to the Manildra ethanol plant - which has breached its EPA licence more than 2000 times, according to the Financial Review - to keep those boilers ticking over and that clean, green ethanol flowing.

According to Fairfax Media, Manildra has development applications in play, which will see the plant expand from 126 million litres to 300 million annually. Do you suppose there’s really any doubt that this plan will get the green light?

When it does, I can guarantee you that it will be a great deal - for Manildra.

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    Popular Comments:

rondhole . 2019-10-23
E10 caused detonation/pinging in pre-2010 cars. Cars runs leaner with E10 because oxygen content in ethanol. MPG dropped about 5% than regular 87 gasoline. Good things, it clean the engine better than plain gasoline but it adsorb water and cause more problems than pure gasoline. It is mandatory in USA to have E10 but fortunately not in Europe.
121 2 . Reply
Bobby Pabla . 2019-10-20
Love how you roast those state goons!
121 2 . Reply
MultiBrommer . 2019-10-08
what about alkylate fuels? in Sweden they are bound by law to use it in racing...
121 2 . Reply
ecbravo999 . 2019-08-19
Takes twice as much energy to make ethanol as you get out of it. Its absolutely stupid from a physics and engineering standpoint. Its just making the rich richer and does nothing to benefit mankind or the planet...
121 2 . Reply
DigitallFlesh . 2019-08-08
I’m an Uber driver and switched to pure gasoline. I’m getting 4-6 mpg better since switching in a Mitsubishi Mirage 3 cylinder. Those are pretty big gains. I was barley averaging 38-39 mpg now I’m getting 43-46 mpg. The car accelerates better at the low end of the rpm range too.
121 2 . Reply
ryvr madduck . 2019-07-03
All this silencing porn stars got me itching for some pornhub.
121 2 . Reply
steven rowe . 2019-06-28
Most of us are simply pawns in the dirt game of high roller politicians, finance and news outlets who inform us of truth through a dark glass.
Forgetting all the greenie stuff for a second from a purely selfish ecconomic point of view is it cheaper to use e10 than say pure petrol.

How will this all play out when we all go mean lean and green with electric .
History shows you solve one area that is dodgy and the entrepreneurial breed will just shut up shop and screw you another way.
Al Capone did that, from prohibition to protection rackets

Will we end up with Manildra Electrc company who just paid a peppercorn rent from some newly privatised power station that the New South Shitsville Government has just sold off.
121 2 . Reply
f150sbcglobal . 2019-05-14
This is a political video and very little to do with E10
121 2 . Reply
MrBuckaroonie . 2019-04-20
Here I am pumping E10 into my car thinking I was supporting Cane farmers up here in FNQ.
121 2 . Reply
Jack Nobles . 2019-04-14
Gasoline laced with ethanol will negatively affect gas mileage. Ethanol works best in engines having compression ratios of roughly 14.5:1 (like NASCAR engines do). This is just another crony capitalism scam. They offer it at 10 cents/gallon LESS NOW....but that will disappear once the competitor fuel product disappears because of the crony mandatory use law the corn lobbyists are getting government to install. This wreaks of same cronyism as the hidden transact fees the credit card banks collect - they add approx. 10 cents to each gallon of gas BTW....this comment supersedes other one I just posted-made correction
121 2 . Reply
Jack Nobles . 2019-04-14
Gasoline laced with ethanol will negatively affect gas mileage. Ethanol works best in engines having compression ratios of roughly 14.5:1 (like NASCAR engines do). This is just another crony capitalism scam. They offer it at 10 cents/gallon NOW....but that will disappear once the competitor fuel product disappears because of the crony mandatory use law the corn lobbyists are getting government to install. This wreaks of same cronyism as the hidden transact fees the credit card banks collect - they add approx. 10 cents to each gallon of gas BTW....
121 2 . Reply
Robert Bruce . 2019-04-06
Outstanding! Now in Costa Rica they want to force upon us ECO95 an E10 derivative and the public seems to be outraged by the monopolistic imposition! I’ll have to switch to 91 RON on my 2012 Volvo S60 T4 just to be on the safe side of the transition to water attractant fuel.
121 2 . Reply
stephen van looy . 2019-03-03
Put E 10 in my Mitsubishi 380 once, never again it ran like a 4 cylinder car. It's the only time I've being disappointed by the 380. Now the big six gets 95 it deserves it.The best built Australian car ? I'm happy & that's all that matters! I
121 2 . Reply
Brendan Quinn . 2019-01-20
Flowery language but this bloke completely skipped over the major benefits of E10. It is far better for Australian companies to be making the profits than the multinationals. Also in the analysis he conveniently left out how much excise the company pays, (Which would be massive). The Germans have been turning coal into diesel and aviation fuel since the 1930s and it is in Australias national interest to both develop that capability here as well for our own strategic interests.
121 2 . Reply
Paul . 2018-12-17
Haha you should run in the state election! You could be half as dodgy, and twice as funny as the Muppets we have now. Hey and still walk away with a big bag of dirty money. Love ya work premier Codogan
121 2 . Reply
Mr Mysterious . 2018-12-16
Finally, a video with way less of his stupid jokes.
Much better and very informative.
Do your future videos the same way
121 2 . Reply
Chris Zacho . 2018-12-14
My truck goes at least 11% further per gallon of 100% gasoline than it does with 10% ethanol (34MPG vs. 30MPG). so, however minor, it's obvious that my carbon footprint is lower using 100%. The only benefit is that it is a renewable resource (at least the ethanol part is). Unfortunately 100% gasoline is gradually becoming a non-option.
121 2 . Reply
Andrew Thomas . 2018-12-09
Political donations are legal. Yet that does not mean they are not corrupt. Want to fix our political system? First, get rid of donations.
121 2 . Reply
Marc wire . 2018-12-06
If the ethanol is that good then why do they use coal?? why not just use ethanol for the boilers? So reality is they are converting coal to ethanol, ohh really green!!
121 2 . Reply
Stuart Hancock . 2018-12-05
If I could weigh in on this from a farmers perspective. I'm dead against ethanol and biodiesel made directly from crops such as wheat and canola even though it assists demand and therefore higher prices.
Apart from rainfall, a basic common crop like wheat needs fertiliser, which is mainly phosphorous and nitrogen. Granulated urea is the most common form of nitrogen and that's made from natural gas. (That's ironic!) And phosphorus is just dug out of the ground from mining.
Just as oil and gas are a finite resource so too are worldwide phosphate reserves. And this is critical for food production.
So in effect mined phosphorus combined with urea made from natural gas combined with sunlight and rainfall are used in a processing facility called a wheat plant, which takes about 6 to 7 months to multiply 30 grains from one grain,.
I think we should conserve the phosphate for bread and Weet Bix and not for your fuel tank.
121 2 . Reply
RobWillmot . 2018-12-05
In Peru and Brazil methanol is half price than gasoline. All the new cars have some extra built in sensors that recognize the percentage of gasoline to ethanol and adjust the fuel intake accordingly. It works pretty well. You can put whatever you can get at the time in you tank without damaging the motor.
121 2 . Reply
Prich038 . 2018-12-02
No the best thing to happen to humanity is fertiliser for farming simply as it poots food on the table to sustain the 7 and a half or so Billion people in the world. Everyone forgets that
121 2 . Reply
Joe Horvath . 2018-12-01
Mate, when you decide to run for a seat in government you will have my vote. Would love to see your level headed and fact based approach to these issues applied in a bigger and more influential venue like parliament. I think you would be great!
121 2 . Reply
Peregrine McCauley . 2018-11-30
Great episode . Good research . Keep the bastards honest .
121 2 . Reply
Rod Ives . 2018-11-30
It takes 1.2 Liters of Ethanol in energy to produce 1 Liter of Ethanol. Says it all no matter what you think if the government is subsidising it's production it is costing and using oil to produce it it's a totally fraud.. Just another Australianism.
121 2 . Reply
Brendan van Rensburg . 2018-11-30
Thanks John, stick to cars ,as your out worldly views sound like cnn.👏👏
121 2 . Reply
FgtTunning . 2018-11-28
Love ur video man. I didn't even know i thought i had knowledge hmmmmmmm
121 2 . Reply
Dave . 2018-11-28
Ethanol in fuel in Australia is mandated and intended to appease the sugar growing electorates.
121 2 . Reply
Coover . 2018-11-26
I thought the E10 sold in Queensland was made from sugar cane, not wheat. In any case, it's just false economy for my car so will never use it until I get a car that benefits from E10.
My car is coeliac/diabetic!
121 2 . Reply
Jason Parkes . 2018-11-26
It's a shame we can't use the latent heat from power stations for ethanol distillation.
121 2 . Reply
Hamish Fullerton . 2018-11-26
I run e85 regularly in an unmodified, au 5.0ltr Falcon ute 99 model and as along as you feather the throttle, because you would normally need fuel pump and injector charge, it can run and will idol fine, you just can't accelerate hard and you need the motor to ajust which does randomly its weird, but it's dual fuel and normally runs lpg and I just idol it on e85, smells like fruit and from a fumes perspective is definitely better for your health and environment, than diesel or petrol, not as much benzene or nasty volatiles, because of the added oxygen in alcohol and if you get it from sugar cane and extract it the right way. It could more environmental from a resource use and co2 output perspective, especially in QLD
121 2 . Reply
everett higginbotham . 2018-11-26
We have ethanol plants in North Dakota, they're usually auxiliary to a power plant. they use the steam from the power plant to ferment and distill the corn ethanol. While it is a coal power plant it's making power for homes and the ethanol is formicite benefit than the main goal.
121 2 . Reply
darylcheshire . 2018-11-24
I’m from Victoria and I just realised I’ve been mis pronouncing Wallerawang.
From a railway interest it is on the Bathurst line and the junction of the Mudgee line.
121 2 . Reply
ferkemall . 2018-11-24
That was the dogs bollox Mr C ,what percentage of E10 do you get in your fuel over there ? /UK
121 2 . Reply
Peter Hindwood . 2018-11-22
I do not and will not ever use ethanol in my car. That’s my Choice.
121 2 . Reply
勇気きみこ . 2018-11-21
E10 is garbage. E85 is awesome in GDI engines. Cleaner fuel is essential for GDI engines and the extremely high compression ratios which improve efficiency over 62 base octane petrol without aromatics. When your an Engineer, the aspect of fuel argument changes completely. Ethanol is a great transition fuel to electric. But one must remember why Ethanol 10% was even started. It was a replacement for another Aromatic that was extremely toxic, MTBE. Ruffians that have an issue with that, and have more knowledge than engineers, please, give us an replacement addictive equally effective.
121 2 . Reply
Bernhard Jordan . 2018-11-14
Let's use lead instead
121 2 . Reply
Black Swan . 2018-11-13
In Mike Rowe's DIRTY JOBS TV series, one episode looks at an entrepreneur buying used cooking oil, filtering it and adding some commonly available chemical. When the oil at the bottom of the holding tank is tapped ... it can be used as a 100% replacement for DIESEL OIL in the bloke's van!
121 2 . Reply
Daryl Cheshire . 2018-11-07
I wasn't sure how coal was used to make ethanol so I googled it.

The coal is converted to carbon monoxide and hydrogen and the CO is fermented into ethanol.
Presumably the process is to react the hot coal with steam.

The Wiki seems to be a bit simple.

Further googling revealed a couple of initiatives in converting CO2 into CO using silver as a catalyst in one of those research pieces that pop up and then sink never to be seen again.

If coal is unpopular, it could be left in the ground until this CO2 angle is worked out and then used in a plant that makes ethanol and hydrogen in bulk quantities.
I see two problems, the average business mind will want to consume the coal now for short term dirty gains (as it does now) and won't want to pay for the research.
If we do something wonderful, the average business mind will want to sell it all overseas and have nothing for the domestic market which pays 'world parity pricing' (which is BS).
The government will introduce a hydrogen tax like petrol excise as they love it. (and because they can)

A lightbulb came over me and I realized why E10 in NSW holds the same niche as unleaded in Vic, it's all through kickbacks to pollies from M******a. Money is so tawdry, probably use prostitutes and white powder. - and fishnet stockings (to combat DVT on those long air trips)
121 2 . Reply
Aussie Taipan . 2018-11-07
If I were PM, EVERY company that has business selling in AU would be taxed at 25%, in fact, the tax rate for every working person and every company would be 25%. Absolutely NO reductions, just a non negotiable flat rate. This goes for companies the likes of Apple too.
121 2 . Reply
Indo Surfer . 2018-11-06
Governments have no clue. For the money it costs, E10 is totally shit.
121 2 . Reply
Rod George . 2018-11-01
My old FJ62 landcruiser loves E10 it runs really well on it but my VS V6 commodore runs like shit on it but the commodore is duel fuel and it loves gas so go figure
121 2 . Reply
Long Pole . 2018-10-27
Can’t even get it in wa
121 2 . Reply
channelofstuff . 2018-10-09
soon they'll start a campaign at some point the "green fuels" are causing global warming.
121 2 . Reply
The Auto Channel . 2018-10-03
John - Congratulations on a really excellent video and insightful evaluation of the problem in Australia.

My business partner and I are solid ethanol advocates. As a side note, last April, when I learned of your pro-E10 report for Adelaide television, I published a story about that TV segment on our website (https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2018/04/21/549335-knowledge-ethanol-benefits-growing-australia-video.html).

When I first read the headline of this YouTube video story and then started watching, I was surprised at what seemed to be a now negative view of ethanol. However, I hung in and watched all the way through. You stayed true to the favorable conclusion you reached in the Channel 7 report, and I like your summation in this story when you say "If you want that (ethanol) to be clean and green, then first...you'd have to clean up the State government."

It is a shame that the waters have to be muddied (pun intended) by the use of coal and/or diesel fuels to take the process from seed planting to delivery of the ethanol fuel to retail pumps. It would be great if the farm tractors, harvesters, distillation plant, and delivery trucks could be powered by solar electricity, or wind sails and turbines, or E99 produced at the same farms and distilleries. Alas, that won't happen in our lifetimes. So we have to make the best of the situation.

Green, and clean, are relative terms (when used as terms and not just words). I know from my own hands-on experimentation that a car using higher levels of ethanol in its ethanol-gasoline blend will provide a "cleaner" result in a smog test. I also know from witnessing in-person live tests of a car using different levels of ethanol-gasoline blends that the results prove that the higher ethanol blends produce "cleaner" emissions.

Of course, I would concede that if the difference in "clean" between THIS and THAT was just a one unit difference on a scale from 1 to 10 (THIS being a 5, and THAT being a 6), then there is no real difference. But in the live test that I witnessed, E99 powering a Pontiac Firebird with no catalytic converter had virtually the same low emissions as E0 with the catalytic converter. So I would rate that as a difference between a 2 and an 8 on a scale from 1 to 10, and say that ethanol is cleaner than gasoline, and it would provide a meaningful result to the environment.

Likewise, I witnessed enough tests of ethanol burning compared to gasoline burning to know that ethanol produces far, far less particulate matter (I'm sure you've seen all these demonstrations, as well). There are "green" people who argue that ethanol is not clean, but that's usually because they get so hung up on including all the peripheral elements related to ethanol, including things like estimating the amount of dirty energy it took to build the farm tractors - this is part of the Pimentel-Patzek studies that denigrate ethanol. The Pimentel-Patzek studies were rebuked almost from the moment they were published, but the enormous strength of the oil industry's wallet is nearly impossible to overcome.

If peripheral elements should be included when calculating if ethanol is clean, then the same peripheral calculations should be made about gasoline and diesel production. And when you calculate in the wars fought, the war materiel required, all the defense of shipping around the world, and the manufacture of all the equipment needed to go from well-to-wheel, petroleum oil fuels are significantly dirtier.

I hope you have a wonderful Australian spring and summer.


Marc J. Rauch
Exec. Vice President/Co-Publisher
121 2 . Reply
Rob Mitchell . 2018-08-26
Hey Stuff knuckle. Great video. Is it true that when e10 is compared to a good quality premium fuel that the e10 puts out a smaller quantity of a more harmful green house gas than " a good quality premium fuel"
121 2 . Reply
Wayne Blake . 2018-08-18
you were under the spell of lucifer
121 2 . Reply
Wayne Blake . 2018-08-18
billy agenda is overthrown! hilly's emails were trying to illegally manipulate stock markets !i have reported her to the sec! crainforest cafe bubba gump beelzebub is the devil! taco bub?
121 2 . Reply
Paul Bradley . 2018-08-15
Hi John I came across this video today and its great. However, the data about the number, ownership and feed stock of ethanol plants in Australia is incorrect. As you mentioned, there is currently one plant in NSW owned by Manildra using a mix of wheat and molasses as feed stock. . But, there are an additional two plants here in Qld. One is owned by United Petroleum using sorghum as a feed stock, while the other is run by Sucragen using molasses as feed stock.

On the matter of fertiliser, I think the point was missed that phosphorous depletion of soils globally is a significant issue. Here, in Australia the phosphorous is of considerable concern given our generality low phosphorous soils compared to other cropping areas on the globe . The production of crops on those soils depletes this phosphorous further and requires the addition of phosphorous as a fertiliser from an ever dwindling global supply.

Your major point in this video is ethanol blended fuel is not green. I fully concur notwithstanding any errors of omission in the video. Keep up the great work.
121 2 . Reply
0 0 . 2018-08-06
e10 ethanol locally creates more smog, and eats plastic/rubber parts in small engines, causing early failure of carburetor parts, especially the common plastic flexible bladder. Looks like : https://www.amazon.com/Harbot-795477-Carburetor-698369-STRATTON/dp/B076KLRHRH/ref=asc_df_B076KLRHRH/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167148561991&hvpos=1o6&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8677773576608301307&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002034&hvtargid=pla-392593612721&psc=1

Anyways, E10 doesn't seem to last as long as the old gasoline, and require more maintenance on small engines.
121 2 . Reply
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